The Chilbo Community welcomes three new members and their businesses to Route 10!

Cinematize, featuring distinctive Southern California Photography on display. Contact Sydney Etoile to purchase some of her works!

Riall’s Emporium has Art, Flowers and Homes for sale, all created by Riall Caproni.

Foxglove’s Finest, where you can find some lovely dresses by Foxglove Foyston,  including stunning gowns in time for all the upcoming holiday parties.

So next time you are looking for some of these items, or just have the urge for some retail therapy, please visit these and the other businesses on Route 10 in Chilbo!

Chilbo residents at the Hanja Welcome Area

On October 24th, Chilbo residents met to discuss the Linden Lab Community Partnership and our intention to submit a proposal. Fleep presented a first draft document that incorporated nearly all of the initial suggestions and brainstorm results from the previous meetings. It should be noted that this document was merely a first draft and that it did not/does not reflect the views or consensus of the Chilbo Community.  Indeed, there were  strenuous objections to some sections of the document.   Nevertheless, in an effort to be transparent about our process, we post the original unedited first draft for archival purposes.

Current Status: Based on our discussion at the meeting on the 24th, a second draft version of the document is in the process of being created.  The second draft is available for revision, commenting, and editing by members of the Chilbo Community.  Members of the public and other Second Life residents are also invited to watch our progress there and submit comments or feedback as a reply to this post.

Fleep intends to set up a special kiosk in the Chilbo Town Hall with transcripts of our previous meetings and the relevant web links later today, and will send out a group notice in world when it’s set up and ready.  (Apologies for the delay, I’m in the process of helping my mom move today!)

In contrast to Chilbo’s land economy with thoughtful design, many land owners have taken advantage of the parceling strategy in conjunction with ad farming.  I was pleased to see that Linden Labs is starting to look at the issue of land cutting.  In several weeks, according to the official SL blog it will be a policy “that makes the deliberate and extensive cutting of land a violation”. 

You can read about the post and more details here.

Pictured here is a “starter” residence in Chilbo.  The parcel is 192 square meters with a cottage of 25 prim.  The parcel will support about 50 prim or so.  This kind of economy affords many residents an opportunity to share space in Chilbo.  

Economy of land use in Chilbo

Chilbo Community – Summer Faire panel on Second Life Community-Building: What we’ve learned

This panel discussion focuses on what can make–or break–communities in Second Life. What’s the “glue” that holds virtual communities together? What helps people get involved? What Second Life tools and features help or hinder the process? Today’s panelists are Sophrosyne Stenvaag of Extropia Core, and Fleet Goldenberg of Eduislands talking about the island sim  perspective. Panel moderator: Tara Yeats

—————————————————————-

Tara Yeats: Welcome to the first of two panel discussions about Second Life community-building.

Tara Yeats: We’ll be talking about what holds virtual world communities together, what helps people get involved, what Second Life tools and features help or hinder the process. Today’s session focuses on Island-based communities. There’s a second session tomorrow focusing on mainland communities.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: wow, you’d think that’d be a fairly popular name…

Tara Yeats: I’ll start off with some brief introductions and we’ll hear from our panelists, then move to questions. For now, if you have a question for our panelists, please send it to me in IM – we’ll open this up for general discussion a bit later.

Tara Yeats: BTW, this will all be in text so you won’t need to toggle anything

Tara Yeats: First, to my left…. Sophrosyne Stenvaag is Director of Extropia Core, which describes itself as an exemplar of the future we want, today, where technology is used exuberantly in the service of beauty and fun. Residents are encouraged to govern their own affairs to the greatest extent possible. Extropia started in 2007.

Tara Yeats: Welcome Soph! To get things rolling, tell us a bit about Extropia – how did it get started?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: well, it started from a few of us looking around for a community with a futuristic theme – that wasn’t a dystopia Sure, cyberpunk has a strong visual aesthetic that makes it a natural for building in SL, but we saw the future in brighter terms, and were drawn to a mix of styles from 60s Star Trek/Jetsons to “raypunk,” a sort of Deco/Golden Age SF aesthetic, to a variety of other futurist styles We didn’t see anything like that in SL, so we decided to build it ourselves, once we had a sense that there’d be enough people interested to fill a sim We opened our doors in Extropia Core on November 11 of last year, and had enough interest to grow to six sims within our first four months

Tara Yeats: wow! that’s a fast growth rate, seems like!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: well, we had ambitious plans, and we really drew a lot of interest. We’ve held the line there, to use the six we have as a sort of laboratory/market research for what will work best these days in SL – we’ve had a tremedous amount to learn

Tara Yeats: I can imagine – and we’ll get back to that
momentarily I want to shift over and introduce Fleet …
Fleet Goldenberg is Community Manager of EduIslands II, 5 & 6, which are are a major location for teacher support and networking in SL. The Eduislands are part of what is now the Info Islands Archipelago, and are among the earliest SL sims.
Welcome Fleet! How about an overview of how the Eduislands got started?

FLEET GOLDENBERG: Thanks Tara! The EduIslands opened with its first island in 2006, EduIsland. My role in the EduIslands chain began at EduIsland 2, opened in March 2007 with a revolutionary new system of renting land to educators and nonprofits on a weekly rate, a system adopted by other islands in the Archipelago. I am now Community Manager of EduIsland 2, 5 and 6. We are a leading community for beginner and advanced SL educators / nonprofits, hosting prominent centers such as Discovery Educator Network and the Teacher Networking Center. At our islands you can meet experts face to face and get lesson plans, philosophies, multi language info, podcasts,
freebies, training tools and much more.

Tara Yeats: Whew! that’s a lot!

Tara Yeats: both of you have energetic and busy communities – I know the whole Info Island archepelago has grown fast as well
Corc had a question for Soph:

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ok!

Tara Yeats: How large was the group of friends that started looking and how did they originally meet?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: well, the core – and the curent Board of Directors – has been my family of four. The discussions involved a dozen or so other people before we bought the sim – we wanted to make sure we could be at least 75% rented before we bought, a principle we’ve tried to hold to in our growth

Tara Yeats: Fleet – what about at EduIslands? has there been a process for deciding when to expand?

Fleet Goldenberg: Usually, because of the setup costs for an island (which are now $2100 USD per island) we open another when the others are full or nearly full and we have an order book of reservations for new land so that the financial risk of a new island is reduced

Tara Yeats: makes sense – it’s not a cheap proposition to get started!

Troy McLuhan: I thought the setup costs were $1000 USD for a private island, and less for nonprofits/educators?

Fleet Goldenberg: We lease our islands from Alliance, the owners of the Archipelago, so we have to pay $700 setup cost (educators discount) plus 6 months rent in advance ($900) plus an additional admin fee to Alliance of $500

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ouch! I thought you were going to say that the difference was labor costs for infrastructure -

Tara Yeats: Doesn’t LL require that additional rent upfront on nonpfrofit sims?

Fleet Goldenberg: It’s obviously cheaper to setup if you can buy your own island directly but you need educational or charitable status for that, otherwise you get charged by Linden Lab at commercial setup and tier rates, so it’s cheaper for us to lease through Alliance For a school or nonprofit to get their own island is about $700, though that only includes one month’s tier I think rather than the 6 months we pay in advance. Tier for educators is $150 a month

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: OK, so, say I’m a professor looking for a quarter-sim for a research facility – what are my advantages going to you as opposed to renting myself?

Fleet Goldenberg: The Eduislands (us) can rent a quarter sim for $83 a month or $1000 USD a year, with no tier fees to pay

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’m not sure about the conversion rate offhand, but that’s about what we would charge… interesting….

Fleet Goldenberg: It’s L$22000 a month

Tara Yeats: I’d like to shift a bit to the people side of
virtual communities… What helps get people connected to your community? What keeps them involved?

Fleet Goldenberg: Sorry to be a walking ad board!

Corcosman Voom: : )

Tara Yeats: LOL Fleet – no problem!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, no, thank you – that’s really interesting!

Fleet Goldenberg: Your trading record is your most treasured posession. Never aim for less than 100% satisfaction. When you are working, keep your ‘business face’ on, smile, and wait til the customer has left the building satisfied before you start swearing! Especially in SL, some people may have a bad experience in your resort simply because they are new to SL and do not yet understand how the interface works. Or they may be having a tough day and taking it out on you. Always keep in mind that the customer doesn’t always hate you because of something you’ve done but just because you are there. So in summary for this tip: the successful resort owner is one who can be patient even when you want to beat your head on the wall!

Tara Yeats: yes, and very much part of the picture

Fleet Goldenberg: Sorry fr the length, I’m pasting from a class I used to give on setting up communities!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’d say, for us the answer is a bit terser – - “involved people”

Tara Yeats: excellent point, tho … what I’ve always thought of in online communities as “smiling from the wrist down”

Fleet Goldenberg: In SL your trading record is invisible but still powerful – it is your reputation. And a damaged reputation is hard to fix, especially because – unlike eBay or Amazon – you cannot show people a statistic or feedback comments to prove how good you actually are. The best way to keep a brilliant reputation is to never do anything to merit a bad one.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we’re all about network effects

Tara Yeats: Soph – what gets them involved best from your experience?

Fleet Goldenberg: It is said that a characteristic of great leaders is that when things do get screwed up, you accept personal responsibility for it and don’t try to argue and deny that all is well. A sincere apology can diffuse customer anger very quickly.

Tara Yeats: Hi Dusan!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: …. ok, that’s been our key question, and we’ve found two different answers

Malburns Writer: Hi Dusan

Fleet Goldenberg: Continously adapt and innovate and remain fresh! If a feature of your resort loses popularity then remove it and replace it with a new idea.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: there’s been some discussion recently that “Generation X” and “Generation Y” have very different goals and approaches -

Corcosman Voom: Yes

LifeFactory Writer: and that now we are in “Generation V” for virtual

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I don’t know about the generational basis, but we’ve found an oldbie/newbie split on interests and motivations

Fleet Goldenberg: I have found that the older generation can be even more keen to learn about SL than the younger ones.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: anyway, what we’ve seen is that we need to offer a mix of free-creativity and structured events

Fleet Goldenberg: I agree with Soph

Tara Yeats: Fleet, do you have a team or steering group of some sort youj work with?

Fleet Goldenberg: I’m pretty much a one-bunny operator. I wish I had staff!!

Tara Yeats: LOL

RACHEL CORLEONE: how do i tell what generation i’m in?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I wish we had *more* staff!

Tara Yeats: you get to rabbit around a lot I bet! (sorry, couldn’t resist!)

Fleet Goldenberg: It doesn’t have to cost a lot of money to keep your customers. The big free money giveaways, as was stated earlier, are the mark of the desperate. Smart thinking beats high spending nearly every time

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Rachel, I’m a bit sketpical that it’s demographic – I see a stronger correlation with SL rez date

Rachel Corleone: that makes sense!

Tara Yeats: I’d like to toss this in from the audience -

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I think had we introduced Extropia, with our initial business model, in 2005, we’d be at 20 sims easy now the market’s changed immensely

Tara Yeats: Hjoerdis Stenvaag: I’d be interested in hearing a bit of discussion about what constitutes activity. To me it is much more than Building and SIMs– it is also having people around a doing things on them. How do you attract people, maintain activity in the streets, make sure there are enough around so that casual conversations are possible….. So any discussion of those sorts of items would be welcome

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: yesyesyes, Hjoerdis!

Fleet Goldenberg: I would also add that one of the worst things you can do to your community is fill it with ‘bot people’ to push up its traffic figure. It’s a pointless promotion method if your sim is so lagged that real visitors can only move a step every 5 minutes

Tara Yeats: amen to that, Fleet!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I think the key to genuine activity, and to real community, is to run enough events that people can become regulars and get to know each other – then step back

Tara Yeats: Like your wonderful salons, Soph, come immediately to mind

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we have spontaneous parties and events at least once a week that don’t involve a director at all, beacuse we’ve provided that networking node thanks, Tara! exactly!

Corcosman Voom: One of the best events on the grid
Fleet Goldenberg: Yes, but if you are understaffed then regular events can kill you. Work as hard as you need to but don’t let your work become your life. That way lies craziness! If you can afford employees though, or can offer volunteers an incentive model such as being able to take donation payments from customers instead of receiving a wage from you, then employing ‘event hosts’ who can run special events at the resort when you are not there can really help you to keep up a steady stream of traffic 24-7

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet really has it – I burnt out pretty seriously this spring, running 3-4 50-80 person events a week at some points

ROSE SPRINGVALE: but doing an excellent job just the same

Tara Yeats: ooof! not surprised it was burnout time

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: thanks!

Corcosman Voom: LL sort of forces the “one central figure” model, doesn’t it?

Tara Yeats: Corc – how so?

Fleet Goldenberg: I got really depressed for a long time because all the events and exhibits I produced got zero attention and it just didn’t seem worth the trouble. I realized that the best way to go is to give your partners and customers the tools to empower themselves so they can produce their own activites and fun.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Corc, it does, and that’s a core problem with any experimental management in SL Fleet, I think we must draw more of a newbie/Gen Y crowd than you!

Tara Yeats: Fleet – sounds like you’ve discovered some fishing poles – instead of giving them fish

Fleet Goldenberg: Well, we have a high intake of newbie educators who know nothing about SL. Luckily, Discovery Educator Network and Teacher Networking Center do a great job of helping and training newbies. Like I said, it’s great if you can give partners the support and tools to help people

Corcosman Voom: Examples of “tools” ?

Troy McLuhan: Google Groups

Fleet Goldenberg: Well, what I mean is ‘support the teachers’. Give them land to build centers on and technical support when they need it so that they can devote all of their energy to their users

Tara Yeats: Here’s another audience question… Smoke Wijaya sez: this question is for both Sophrosyne and Fleet and concerns more the underlying structure, namely the onwership and the absence of any security or reliability of LL regarding your assets and residents. Does this not frustrate, especially for Fleet, the growth because of lack of trust by educators and nonprofits? Does the ToS and the absence of any rights or protection for the user ever comes to mind when you think about expanding?

Fleet Goldenberg: The EduIslands are very strict on security and we actually write it into our own island Terms of Servic, promising them the protection that they need. Our partners know that if someone causes trouble for them then that griefer is going to be dealt with

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Smoke, I ‘d say for us, the answer is yes, and yes One of our intial goals was to experiment with community self-governance, and we learned two things: one, given the feudal model of SL, it’s funamentally a farce,

Troy McLuhan: ?

SMOKE WIJAYA: Fleet, I do not mean that .. i refer to the possibility of arbitraryu banning and deleting for any or no reason, changing of contract on LL sole discretion etc

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and two, most sane and well-intentioned people would rather spork their eyes out than be actively involved in management

Fleet Goldenberg: Security is a high priority for a lot of our prospective educational tenants. It’s for this reason we only let island group members place or alter objects on our islands.

Malburns Writer: lol Soph

Tara Yeats: LOL Soph!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and, we’ve been very hestant to expand, despite having the interest and the financial backing

Smoke Wijaya: ok

Tara Yeats: Fleet, one of th4e issues I’ve heard raised is that lack of security of knowing your stuff will actually still *be* here in 2 years or 5 years, e.g., for someone doing an inworld research project

Fleet Goldenberg: I think that you have to keep growing to maintain attention in the face of competition from super-alliances like NMC. But at the same time I always say QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. A small number of islands with superb features beats 50 islands that are half empty

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I completely agree! we’ve shifted our focus to intensive development as a result of coming to the same conclusion

Fleet Goldenberg: Well, the same security issue can be said about Massively Multiplayer video games. Most of them vanish fast in the face of competition from the almighty World of Warcraft. I suggest to people that they keep the textures and design blueprints when they make an object so it’s easy to rebuild in another world if they need to

Smoke Wijaya: yes Fleet, big difference is thought hat this world is build by us… though*

Troy McLuhan: One can also use the “Second Inventory” program to save SL assets (objects, scripts, etc.) that you own to your local hard drive as a backup Provided you have the rights, of course

Corcosman Voom: : )

Fleet Goldenberg: BUT luckily, the incoming wave of educational worldsthese days that are based on Java will allow items to be built in Google Sketchup, so you can import the same object to a few different worlds without alteration

Tara Yeats: There’s a degree of control island owners have when building community that mainland communities don’t have – at the same time, there’s the walled garden effect – what’s your take on the differences, and the advantages/disadvantages of island vs. mainland for communities?

Smoke Wijaya: those work arounds do not take away that the ToS grants no protection for your business or org, content and accounts, while granting LL completel control over it…

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: yes, Smoke! Honestly, I don’t see any disadvantages to the island model -

Fleet Goldenberg: When people complain about island prices and the value of their investment, they forget that you don’t really own real estate. What you are paying Linden Lab for is the right to host your data on their servers, kinda like webhosting

Troy McLuhan: LL isn’t going to go around deleting respected people’s accounts. It would be against their own self interest

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: you can design a community at whatever level of freedom or control you like, and see what happens

Fleet Goldenberg: Islands are a 3D manifestation of hosted data

Hjoerdis Stenvaag: but don’t you get more drop-in traffic on the mainlands?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Extropia’s pretty anarchic, in a lot of ways, but we just don’t put up with griefing, with predatory advertising, with so many of the ills and challenges mainlanders face

MOVIES1963 BECK: owning land in here is like owning a timeshare

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Hjoerdis, I’m not so sure- we get a ton, because our publicity is everywhere
-

Fleet Goldenberg: The mainland sims run slower than private islands because many areas are hosted on one server, whereas with islands you only have 4 islands per server on it so it runs faster (less lag)

Tara Yeats: I was going to ask what each of you do to get the word out about your communities…

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and they’re usually people who have some context for us, and some interest, rather than utterly random flyovers
oh yes Fleet! We do 80+ person events routinely without noticeable lag, and I’ve seen mainland sims crater at 40 we couldn’t do the events we do on the mainland

Corcosman Voom: 21, we’re cool.
: )

Troy McLuhan: I thought Mainland sims can’t hold more than 40. Isn’t that a hardwired limit?

MONARCHY REPUBLIC:

Fleet Goldenberg: You’re paying for the extra speed and prim allowance (15,0000 prims per full price island), plus privacy if you want your land to be in the middle of nowhere out at sea and not next to a sex den

Tara Yeats: Troy, no, I think it’s based on which class of server

Fleet Goldenberg: 15,000

Troy McLuhan: The “Agent Limit” on this particular sim is 40

Tara Yeats: Thinking of the techie side of SL, what hurdles do the SL software create for your community? What’s on your wish-list for Linden Lab to change that would help your community and others?

Fleet Goldenberg: The agent limit can be raised manually in the estate settings, but once you get past about 40 avatars in an event where there is chat then it’s lag time! If it’s non chat then you can get 65-70

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’m just the marketing person, so I can’t speak effectively to that – but I’d love to see better notice, IM, group chat, and an end to the 25-group limit

Fleet Goldenberg: I read the other day I think that LL are bringing in a new IM system in an upcoming update

Tara Yeats: Not limited to just tech but also the various policy areas that affect things

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: yes, I saw that, and I’m eager for news!

LifeFactory Writer: There are announcement technologies now, however, that allow one to receive group notices without needing to actually join the group. But yes, I would like more groups as well.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ahh, policy…. don’t get me started there! but I think a lot of our questioners have hit the key points

DUSAN WRITER: yay SLim

Fleet Goldenberg: For me, one of the biggest disadvantages of SL for me has been the refusal to accommodate under-13s (pre-k12) and LL’s refusal to listen to any compromise ideas at all

Dusan Writer: (IM client information here http://dusanwriter.com/?p=795 and here on massively http://www.massively.com/2008/08/08/improved-instant-messaging-coming-to-second-life/

Troy McLuhan: Is there *any* virtual world that lets children and adults mix freely?

VALIANT WESTLAND: The < 13 issue is based on US Federal child protection laws

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Troy, World of Warcraft and most of the MMos

Tara Yeats: (thanks Dusan!)

Valiant Westland: This is NOT a LL negotiable issue.

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: thanks, Dusan – you’ve been on fire with your blog lately!

Fleet Goldenberg: I suggested last year that maybe they could allow a system where you gave each kid a joypad with just one button on it to press to activate an effect (no chat, movement, control etc at all) and they said “Good idea, but the TOS won’t allow it”

Dusan Writer: ^^

Fleet Goldenberg: At that point I ran out of compromises to try And believe me, I spent weeks working out possible workarounds

Valiant Westland: This is NOT an SL negotiable issue…

Malburns Writer: FLEET – doesn’t one of yr islands now include a kind of “halfway” house designed to ease the transition for ppl coming into main grid from teen one?

LifeFactory Writer: And for those who really want to engage pre-13, they can apply to work launch an initiative on the teen grid. *to launch

Tara Yeats: It also seems to be an issue for educators on teen grid with seniors hitting 18 – no system to bridge

Fleet Goldenberg: We used to have an arcade but the teens didn’t support it so I had to give it up because our other centers needed the prims for applications that would actually be useful to visitors

Hjoerdis Stenvaag: not to mention all the differences between how we divide age groups in Europe and how those in the US do it

Tara Yeats: true Hjoerdis

Fleet Goldenberg: I think that not increasing the island prim limit when Havok 4 came in was a real wasted opportunity

Tara Yeats: Here’s a more personal question for both of you: what keeps you going as a community manager?

Fleet Goldenberg: Hope, despite the visual evidence!

Monarchy Republic:

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: It comes from people I barely know saying to me, or saying in the media, that Extropia is their home, and that they love it there

Hjoerdis Stenvaag: wrinkles and gray hair don’t show here in SL

Tara Yeats: From my own experiences, I know well how an online community mgmt project can eat every available moment and then some

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ha, yes, Tara – and balance is the hardest part of the whole enterprise!

Fleet Goldenberg: It used to be a time eater for me until I made the decision to empower people so they could support themselves Like the old saying goes – give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, but give him the means to catch his own and he can feed his family for life

Tara Yeats: very true – as long as you’re willing to be surprised by people doing things differently than you yourself might

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, I really do think we have very different demographic bases!

DANDELLION KIMBAN: … and he’ll sit in a boat and dring beer the whole day…

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ha, dande!

Tara Yeats: LOL dande!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: We started with that vision, and built infrastructure to enable creativity -

Tara Yeats: I have one last question, and then we’ll open this up for general discussion for as long as Soph and Fleet are game

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and did a poll after a few months, and learned that most everyone wanted more organized events they could attend!

Fleet Goldenberg: I have found that if you find out what people want and then try to fulfill those wishes then they can amuse themselves if they have to. But they do love DJs!

Tara Yeats: If you were to start from scratch, what would you do differently? What advice would you give to someone just starting a community in SL?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and we have the best in SL! ohh, wow – I’ll let Fleet run with that while I think it through….

Valiant Westland: It would be nice if SL was more easily linked/empowered with Web 2.0 technologies… for instance, giving people the abillity to subscribe to an RSS newsletter that could easily be received/viewed in SL as an HTML newsletter or in 1st Life as an RSS feed. The abillity to have a true PIM/CRM solution for managing contacts, groups, etc. .. speaking of events…. how about a real calendar in SL, that was part of the client and allowed you to subscribe to various event calendars by type and had ZERO SPAM because all events were moderated…

Fleet Goldenberg: I would have applied the ‘empower people so they can empower themselves’ strategy from the start instead of feeling I had to do everything and be everything that people wanted.

dandellion Kimban: and to add events to iCal easily

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Valiant, a useable SL events list would be huge for us!

Tara Yeats: good list, Valiant!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’d say, one, toss out the rulebook. Nothing that worked in 2004, 2005 is an effective guide to community in SL in 2008.

Fleet Goldenberg: An idea that has been successful in one place can be successful in another if you stick closely to the formula of that resort. Visit other resorts, explore them and take note of what you think works well and what doesn’t. Learn for free from the mistakes of others. People who have reached the top in business, in both RL and SL, got there over a long period by learning by trial and error. If you study what they did right then you can repeat their success in months instead of years. Learn from the best but don’t ignore their mistakes either

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Two, global diversity means there’s no one answer Three, labor and management time is vastly more important to success than architecture

LifeFactory Writer: Those are all attractive suggestions, Valiant. You are working on such things, no?

Troy McLuhan: Many groups use Google Calendar to manage their events. Those can be embedded in websites etc.

Valiant Westland: Working on all of them LifeFactory!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Troy, we do that – the problem is, that’s great for informing people we’ve already reached – reaching new people….. that’s a huge challenge for a marketing/advertising manager in SL

Valiant Westland: It’s tough to build great community without the proper tools…

Fleet Goldenberg: I have found myself that there are too many social networking and blog sites for me to keep track of. In an ideal world you could get everything you need from one source. Maybe that’s what RSS feed pages are for!

LifeFactory Writer: belives she has heard that as well, Dusan.

Rose Springvale: what do you to to reach new people ?

Troy McLuhan: The web is already full of great tools for managing virtual communities. Most peple who can use SL can use the Web. So what’s the big deal?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Oh, I disagree with Fleet there – there’s a different optimum mix of tools for every person and every community

Fleet Goldenberg: There are few options for effective advertising in SL. I have found that the one true method you can rely on 100% is positive word of mouth recommendation

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Rose, mostly we’ve found our biggest successes with the SL media and with Facebook

dandellion Kimban: troy… web is full of tools, it’s the connection of web and SL that we need

Valiant Westland: Absolutely dandellion!

Fleet Goldenberg: And you get those recommendations by offering outstanding customer service

Valiant Westland: SL can’t afford to be an “island” unto itself

Tara Yeats: Yes, easily being able to get web info into SL
continues to be a major hurdle

Troy McLuhan: SL already connects to the web: HTTP, XML-RPC, Email, HTML-on-a-prim, etc.

dandellion Kimban: you know… I see a notice for the event and one button to add it to my own calendar

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, yes, and that’s something I’ve seen a lot of event runners get wrong

Valiant Westland: Exactly dandellion! 30 days or less!

Tara Yeats: I love that when I find it, dande!

Fleet Goldenberg: Large visitor numbers do not automatically translate into large cash profits if they are not spending while they are there. By the time you subtract your costs from your income then your financial balance can be left in the red. Exploit every possible opportunity to create spending but do it in a subtle and non-tacky way – simply make the customers aware that the retail opportunities are there but do not shove it in their face. The happiest customer is the one who believes they are spending because they want to and not because they are pressured into it

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’m totally open for any questions anyone has, so please, ask away!

Fleet Goldenberg: If you’re not going to sell stuff in your sim then really the only way you can afford an island is if you’re paying for it all from your own pocket out of love for the project or your employers are supporting you

Troy McLuhan: What about renting parcels?

LifeFactory Writer: or you have a grant.

Rose Springvale: what about land sales..lol

Valiant Westland: What do people believe is the best method for getting people “in” to SL and oriented properly?

Rose Springvale: yes, renting

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Valiant, a terrific question!

Dusan Writer: give them good hair and it doesn’t matter they’ll stick through anything

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Now, if I were LL ‘s marketing department….

dandellion Kimban: LOL

Monarchy Republic:

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ha!!!

Tara Yeats: I think wee have RL attractions pulling some folks away, but before we thin out too much, a quick announcement:

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I’d do a lot more targeted outreach….

Tara Yeats: Tomorrow at 12noon – Second Life Community-Building part 2 – the mainland experience, with Fleep Tuque of the Chilbo community, and Prokofy Neva of Ravenglass. Don’t miss it! Here at the Chilbo Shrubbery Amphitheater at 12 noon SL time.

Troy McLuhan: Dusan makes a good point though – get them to invest in their avatar right away, so that it becomes an extension of themselves

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: if Extropia had the time and staff, we’d advertise in media and science fiction magazines, at scinec fiction and gamer conventions -the opportunities are enormous

Tara Yeats: LOL Dusan about hair!

Valiant Westland: What do people think of the move towards outside configuration… Jinx Dusan!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Troy, Dusan, yes, that’s very good!

Valiant Westland: LOL

Fleet Goldenberg: I find that individuals are the easiest to attract into SL once they see friends or colleagues having fun in here. Institutions, and particularly administrators, are much harder to convince. I usually recommend to people that if they want to get their school to officially pay for their work or even join SL then they supply their admins with web-based facts, statistics, movies, case studies etc. Don’t just invite them into SL because they will probably run a mile!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Like what Spore has done with its Creature Creator

Dusan Writer: exactly soph

Valiant Westland: Link please…

Corcosman Voom: Do either of you have any interest or curiosity about the other grids based on OpenSim software? osgrid, TribalNet, etc? Or any other virtual worlds?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: http://www.spore.com/trial?sourceid=eaom35

Dusan Writer: http://dusanwriter.com/?p=602

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Corc, absolutely!

Dusan Writer: sorry to spam myself haha

Tara Yeats: Thanks Soph – I want to check that out

Fleet Goldenberg: An excellent source for professional data about SL is LL’s official site for pros, Second Life Grid ( http://www.secondlifegrid.net )

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: We’re in close contact with a number of people involved in OpenSim, and looking at it very strongly as a growth opportunity

Dusan Writer: have they updated that since they launched it Fleet?

dandellion Kimban: LOL

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: We also support a guild in World of Warcraft – Metaverse Explorers on the Arathor server, Horde-side

Fleet Goldenberg: I have deeply explored other worlds and practised with them but feel that I probably have to get things working as well as they can in SL before fully diverting time and resources to other platforms

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we’re trying various things as they come along, but nothing’s been attractive so far and, I’d like to say in public, Google Lively is shockingly bad!

Fleet Goldenberg: I have a WoW warrior with Hawaiian trousers and red Wizard of Oz shoes. He’s scary!

Dusan Writer: has anyone considered separate tutorials in the viewer based on your target audience?

Tara Yeats: Plugs for our presenters today: Extropia on the web: http://core.extropiacore.net; and Fleet’s webiste: http://www.squirrelverse.com

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, we have a Troll bartender – they should meet up!

Fleet Goldenberg:

Tara Yeats: Haha Fleet! does he have rabbit ears?

Dusan Writer: (Go to Help>Tutorial, this can be swapped out with community specific tutorials)

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Dusan, we’re seriously considering an orientation facility for the middle of next year

Fleet Goldenberg: Funnily he does thanks to his helmet

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Dusan, that’s terrific – thanks for that!

Valiant Westland: FYI…. I would pay for “white-label” orientation as a service for clients!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Valiant, outstanding idea, yes!

Fleet Goldenberg: I’d love to be able to provide lots of resources myself but ultimately find I haven’t the energy. Life is tiring!

Rose Springvale: there seems to be so many opportunities and so little time. Any advise for extending ourselves .. er.. getting help?

Tara Yeats: Hey, many many thaks to both Fleet and Soph for a great discussion today!! excellent stuff, and there will be posted transcript

Corcosman Voom: This has been a great discussion, thanks to both of you for coming to Chilbo. And thank you, Tara, for hosting.

Rose Springvale: yes, great information. Thanks!!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Rose – the thing that got me where I am today was a facility called the Diverisonarium, which we’ll be re-opening soon -

Malburns Writer: Yes – excellent discussion – tks all

Rose Springvale: yes?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: a chance for newbies to host simple events, and build a clientele

Tara Yeats: Hope to see you all back here tomorrow

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: a clear, easy growth ladder for anyone interested

Fleet Goldenberg: For help, I recommend going to ‘big folk’ like Teacher Networking or Discovery (plug plug) if you want specialist edu advice, or there’s New Citizens Plaza for general newbie resources

Rose Springvale: ah, that’s a great idea

Dusan Writer: bye all, nice session thanks

BUTCH DAE: Thanks everyone.

Fleet Goldenberg: Thanks for coming, Dusan

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Rose, let’s talk – we could probably licence the package of stuff to you

Tara Yeats: good project, Soph – it does take some prep, but not difficult once you’ve learned some tricks

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: thanks, all of you -

LifeFactory Writer: Enjoy you days….

Rose Springvale: sounds good

Valiant Westland: OK… shameless plug… if anyone is interested in calendar or grop mangement tools… feel free to IM me…

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: thanks, Tara, and Fleet

Valiant Westland: Bye everyone! Have a wonderful weekend.

Fleet Goldenberg: You’re totally welcome. It’s been a blast

LifeFactory Writer: notes very valuable plug from Valiant!

Tara Yeats: Great to hear about EduIsland, Fleet! Lots of new info for me there and I have a well-established soft spot for Soph’s salons

Sophrosyne Stenvaag:

Rose Springvale: please send the url for your transcripting. i
can’t be here tomorrow

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we’ll be doing a more limited schedule, rather than the weekly events,

Tara Yeats: Rose – they’ll be at the chilbo website…. just a sec

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: but we’ve got some brilliant stuff ahead!

Rose Springvale: kk

Tara Yeats: http://chilbo.org
too easy! LOL

Sophrosyne Stenvaag:
http://eventsinextropia.wordpress.com/ for our past and future events, calendar and whatnot in addition to and conjunction with our main website

Fleet Goldenberg: In yr Chilbo, readin yr texts

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: also, catch Extropia (and me) on Facebook!

Tara Yeats: LOL Fleet

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: hee!

Corcosman Voom: : ))

Rose Springvale: i’d like to talk about how you interface facebook and sl Soph

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ah, it’s been our real winner we’ve used probably 20 different Web2.0 tools and discarded most all the rest one is to create a Page for your community – then pull in all your goodies- Flickr, video, photos, calendaring -

Rose Springvale: you have a full website too. you just link?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and then between yourself and your Page, you can do a lot of posting that people really see no, we duplicate content – it’s been worth it

Rose Springvale: ah, very cool

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Frex, one of our most active community efforts, that the Board doesn’t really do much with, has been the Extropia Defense Force air-dogfighting group

Tara Yeats: Soph – have you also tried a Ning group? justr wondering how that compares w/facebook as a useable resource

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: they do terrific YouTube videos, and we include them
Tara, we do have one – what we’ve found is that Ning works for small sub-groups best -

Fleet Goldenberg: I imagine air dogfights in SL are decided by who has the less laggy computer

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: the Defense Force has one, and our main one has kind of been a forum for our hardcore builders but in terms of promotion…. nope but, Extropia’s FB page has 100+ viewers, and I have over 200 friends, with only about half overlap – and most of those people aren’t our Citizens, landowners, event regulars – but they hear about all our events

Tara Yeats: and I would guess do show up occasionally, or could in the future the “name familiarity” game

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we draw a lot from there – and all our other outlets weren’t drawing enough people to merit the time -

Tara Yeats: good to know!

Rose Springvale: any idea what the demographic is there?

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: metaverse Ning groups, various community and issue blogs…

Rose, in Extropia, or on Facebook?

Rose Springvale: well, since you asked.. both

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ha! ok….
We do know we draw pretty evenly across US and European timezones a few Aussies, really no South or east Asians, unfortunately age, I have no idea I have a vague sense that we fall pretty close to the overall SL distribution, but I don’t know

Rose Springvale: scheduling is always a cross timezone issue..

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I do know that we’re very heavy on SL newbies
woo, yes, Rose! (and, I think the newbie draw is due to our ubiquitous media presence)

Tara Yeats: for real, Rose! especially if you want US *and* Europe *and* far east….

Rose Springvale: i’ve just given up lately and run two of everythng

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we had one *very* tired Australian professor at our Future of Religion conference!
Rose, I’ve seen that, and I think it’s an outstanding solution

Tara Yeats: LOL

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: We’ve just run the occasional 12-hour DJ party

Rose Springvale: too bad i can’t clone myself though lol

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Seriously!

Tara Yeats: I’ve had a coupla 5am meetings… to accommodate

Fleet Goldenberg: There are some groups that roughly overlap like Europe and the Far East. The US is usually one one that requires the seperate event!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: If there were three of me running in shifts, watch out world!

Tara Yeats: LOL Soph

Corcosman Voom: : )

Rose Springvale: lol

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, we’ve found it pretty easy to accommodate US/Europe with morning and afternon events SLT….

Tara Yeats: bifurcation… the next challenge!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: but… just *not* doing the 3am thing, sorrry!

Fleet Goldenberg: I’m English so I go to bed at 3pm SL time!

Rose Springvale: lol, you know you are spending too much time online when you start to see the names on your friendslist cycle…

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: One of our directors is as well – and she routinely stays up later than me, and I’m on SLT
heee, Rose!

Tara Yeats: hehe Rose!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: I think it’s really more a matter of personal schedule than timezone – so we draw a lot of Europeans like dande who keep late hours

Tara Yeats: and folks like Mal

Rose Springvale: Mal doesn’t sleep though

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: yes, who I think *never* sleeps!

Corcosman Voom: The night owls

Malburns Writer: wishes self could get to bed at 3pm SLT!

Rose Springvale: lol
Fleet Goldenberg: I run my own business too in RL so I don’t have the energy to live in SL

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Corc, yeah – Extropia has a vibrant nightlife that runs about 14 hours a day

Rose Springvale: y’all are wild and crazy over there

dandellion Kimban: LOL

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: we do know how to have fun !

Fleet Goldenberg: I burnt out my mojo dancing like a maniac at college in my twenties

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: and just wait till our new beachfront/nightclub complex opens – whooo!

Rose Springvale: lol

Tara Yeats: awww, Fleet!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: Fleet, if you ever get a mojo recharge, come on over! We’ll put some years back on you!

Tara Yeats: I appreciate being able to do moves in SL I never could do in RL!

Rose Springvale: smile

Monarchy Republic: you just gotta fid the beats,Fleet

Fleet Goldenberg: I rely on Youtube for the beatz

Rose Springvale: thanks so much everyone.. i have to go find out about group management tools

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: bye Rose – let’s talk soon!

Corcosman Voom: Well, this has been terrific but I have to head out. Farewell, all.

Malburns Writer: Bye Rose

Rose Springvale: anytime soph!

Tara Yeats: Thanks Rose, Corc for being here!

Sophrosyne Stenvaag: ok, everybody, I’m going to head out too – thanks, all of you, again!

Tara Yeats: thank you all for being here, in fact!

Malburns Writer: Tks to you Soph

Fleet Goldenberg: I have to be getting away as well. Tara, thanks again for inviting me, and thanks to all of you for listening and contributing so well to the discussion