In terms of Hanja I don’t think that’s a good idea. I just visited there and it had no real information for newbies but a group of avatars talking sexual trash and dissing each other in a close group, lots of them, 8-12 or so. Since this is basically similar to what others who have visited it a week or two or longer ago have said about the spot, it seems to me this is a traditional meeting place for some unsavory characters who either don’t expect newbie help or wouldn’t want it. So I don’t think Chilbo should get into the newcomer greeting business if that’s going to take place in Hanja. If we can do a Gateway or newbie landing spot or info hub here in Greater Chilbo, however, I would be for that. For example, maybe something like that could be set up in the spot that Corcosman took over from one of our departing big members, over there by Venz or one of the nature preserves. … There’s still some land left for sale in Soy … LOL … If we did that, built our own newbie greeter hub of whatever size or configuration, we could all pitch in and info it up and maybe have a revolving group of greeters or IM boards of volunteer mentors and signs directly folk to walk around Chilbo or with landmarks to great Chilbo locales for newcomers. I’m happy to be involved with that in a big way.

Since Rodolfo and I don’t contribute to community land tiers, I can’t really speak to how the following would impact those who do, but I’m all for expanding the roads through all the sims in which we have residents, and all for having our sidewalks be discounted against the tiers you all pay. Chibi and I were talking the other day and she said the sidewalks drew her to Chilbo; that was certainly true for Rodolfo and I. The infrastructure was a big draw for us, as well as what existed in education/art/not for profit here already. But if it hadn’t been for the sidewalks (seriously) we probably wouldn’t have taken the time to explore the Community, then the Community Center, then read the Chilbo philosophy doc and then realize we’d found a home. … Okay so that cheap rents helped too …

I’m also all for building in an outreach program to homeowners who aren’t Chilbo members if that’s a part of our taking on Greeter duties.

But I think the longer residents/wiser heads than mine on this chat so far have the right attitude. We should proceed carefully, slowly, and balance what LL can do for us with what we can do for LL that also coincides with our own goals as a community.

As for the backlash visible on Blondin’s blog: I think there are a lot of anarchists in SL who bristle at any of the responsibilities/compromises that may come with true community building and they are always going to call any cooperation with LL a sell-out or a cop-out because that’s how they look at the world. Has the Blake Sea group got branded as sell-outs because they’re working with LL or is that just in the mind of the anarchists? My attitude towards this particular issue is tempered by my relationship with my RL cousin who is also a long-time SLer. He relocated to Zindra and was really annoyed to have to do that to keep doing whatever it is that he does, but for me, I loved the idea of Zindra being separated. I didn’t want to have to see ads for torture chambers when I was searching for furniture or actual naked guys with very exaggerated body parts wandering around all over the place. So some of us are a little tamer than others. And that’s kind of the way life is. For me, then on the “would partnering up tarnish our rep” question, I think we should just satisfy ourselves and know that there will always be an element out there that who will see partnering up as a negative, and probably those are the type of folks who wouldn’t feed comfortable in Greater Chilbo anyhow.

My first thought is how can LL really help Chilbo? I am quite leary of getting anything of value from them. Coro, your plan of moving the ban-line properties is good but I really don’t see LL helping out with that as my understanding is they have a fairly hands-off bias toward resident’s affairs. I would be very cautious dealing with the Lindens. It feels to me like another layer that is really not needed. That said, proceeding to the next step might be interesting, see what is proposed.

I have been involved with NCI South for the past year and as close as they are to the Welcome Center and as much service as they provide new people, they get no support that I know of from LL. I really think the best thing Chilbo can do is to continue to be the shining example you already are, of an organic virtual community. People will hear about us and seek us out if what we do is a fit for them.

Kristine, as I understand it, the difference between the gateways and the welcome areas is this: once upon a time, all new SL residents first rezzed on an orientation island, run by Linden Lab, with a series of “stations” to work your way through to learn the basics. When you finished those, and left for the mainland, you landed at a welcome area, which you could re-visit at any time. You could not return to the orientation island. The welcome areas included “basics” displays for review, and could be visited by anyone, so have long had a rather sordid reputation for griefing and misbehavior. Gateways were a later addition, where specific business-y ventures (e.g., Dublin, virtual London, Singapore, GossipGirls, Virtual Ability) became “first rezz” orientation spots. Unlike LL’s orientation island (which I think still exist), the gateways can negotiate settings on who can be in the orientation area – so some limit access to avatars within their first 30 days, other than official mentors/helpers.

I, too, have definite reservations about Chilbo offering to take on a specific welcome area role, as others have already expressed.

That said, I’m impressed by the suggestions that have been made, and agree with proceeding. I would like to see our initial proposal include something like a 6-month review point, where both Chilbo and LL could separately or mutually agree to discontinue the partnership.

http://rezzed.tv/2009/10/crap-rants-4-chilbo-uber-alles

The proposal needs to recognize that we’re an informal and mostly unstructured community — anything that requires significant additional commitment beyond what people are already able to make would be difficult to sustain.

I am not keen on taking over a welcome area or trying to attract people for the sake of volume. I agree with Corcosman that if someone thinks this would be a good idea, make a proposal we can review.

The greatest value in a partnership would be the reduction in tier if LL were to take over the “sidewalk easements” within Chilbo — the sidewalks are an important feature of Chilbo which help define the community area and provide a means for visitors and residents to “wander” — an important activity for new arrivals. I think a good case could be made that these benefit Second Life overall, even more so than the unpaved “roads” over most of SL. The freed tier could be used for other purposes, or to reduce the monetary obligations of some tier contributors.

While some of the other suggested benefits would be good, I would have expected these to be done even without a partnership: abandoned parcel reclamation, SIM performance troubleshooting, better coordination of group and individual land ownership/transfer. But I know we’ve had hard going with these, and perhaps a partnership would result in LL being able to allocate more of their limited resources to help us here.

Will anyone be bringing a draft proposal for a partnership to the meeting this weekend? It would be good to have something specific to review/discuss.

Gem

Oh, how I love you, Cor.

I have something to add, especially since at the meeting I was actually unclear as to the difference between a welcome area and a gateway was. I visited Hanja and was ultimately confused as to what even it is for. There were a few info kiosks and some unused table games and a group of avs gesturbating and whatnot. I didn’t see anyone that particularly needed to be welcomed (except maybe myself! as it seemed to be rather tight knit group of chatters). I expected something more like the gateway in SL Dublin where I landed my first day. I agree that managing or “staffing” Hanja is a pretty ambitious, though I all for a bi-weekly field trip to go up and shout “does anyone need welcoming?”. Ironically, I actually think that in the long term, Chilbo would do better as a Gateway, someday…

The Lab wants to improve the mainland. One of Chilbo’s principles is to be friendly to new people. More experienced users fly over the top of blocked access parcels, newer people find them a big pain in the neck.

The Lab has precedent in relocating mainland residents in the adult content relocation.

I would propose a small project. We have unused, blocked access parcels in Chilbo and Madhupak, 1024 total in each sim, I think.

My thought is that we fashion a proposal for the Lab to relocate these residents, substituting these parcels for other parcels that the Lab owns. That way the concern about the property rights of inactive owners that I sometimes see will be satisfied. They will still own the same number of sq. meters.

If this pilot program is successful, in the future, if the Lab is feeling puckish, perhaps they could establish entire islands full of nothing but blocked access 512 parcels.

Ownership of the parcels within the community would be retained by the Lab. Perhaps markers could be constructed denoting these as Linden Parks or something similar. The parcel rights would be the same as any other open space in Chilbo – those would be different than any other Governor Linden owned land. The day-to-day management of those parcels would be assigned to a limited number of Chilbo members; I have four particular people in mind that currently have responsibility for land maintenance in the community.

This would be a true partnership with the Lab. They would be able to demonstrate, on a very small scale, their willingness to make the mainland more pleasant and friendly to new users. Chilbo would gain free access for new users to easily walk through the sims, something consistent with our principles.

There would still be abandoned parcels from 2006 in the sims, but those have free access to walkers so they wouldn’t be part of the package.

If the Lab likes this, maybe they could also relocate the remaining few 16 sq. meter former ad parcels in the name of beautification.

The idea of a new category for Mainland Communities in the Showcase is appealing to me. There are communities functioning as Gateways for new users and they get featured when a user signs up. The Gateway program is something beyond the desires and abilities of Chilbo, and I am sure, of other communities. It would be great to have some kind of pointer to other communities for new users and the Showcase seems like a good idea.

As to the Hanja Welcome Area, managing/staffing seems out of the realm of possibilities to me and something the Lab would not be too excited about. Maybe an outline of a proposal would change my mind.